The FractionX Podcast
Leadership is Hard. We're here to help.
The FractionX Podcast
What Do You DO?
Can you love what you do and not lose yourself while you do it?
Is finding the balance even possible?
On this episode we discuss a couple strategies to help prioritize the things that matter most, and where meaning, purpose, and significance really come from.
Matt, do you ever feel like you were born in the wrong generation?
Speaker 1:Man yeah, all the time you.
Speaker 2:No, I just feel like you, I feel that way about you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a dream of mine when I was I don't know 20. Mine when I was a I don't know 20 or 30, something, was to wake up on Saturday morning and go to Hardee's with a bunch of old guys and just gripe about kids driving too fast.
Speaker 2:You know you entered the crotchety old man stage a lot sooner than most people. It's a facade.
Speaker 1:It's not real. That's true. True, I'm really a joyful person you are.
Speaker 2:You are well, the reason why I asked that is because there's in the work you kind of have an old soul in the workforce, right, and I think it's probably you know the way you were raised in your family system and you have a real hard-working father. I mean, you come from like, yeah, you're a hard work guy, you know, and I love that, I think that's great. And then there's as the generations kind of emerge. We're in this place where maybe let me ask this in a question, not a statement but do you feel like the value of hard work and work ethic is starting to be diminished, as it was like, you know, maybe our father's generation?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely there's. There's no getting around it. I thought that was a pretty softball question. Well, I think I'm. There's a hundred reasons that I don't think we have time to go through all of them. But I mean, technology has made work easier. Okay, right, we can. We can do things now with technology that you know would have taken we talked about analog on the last show. That would have taken weeks to automate, you know, before. Now.
Speaker 1:It's like man, we can do this all with AI on a lot of levels. And then I think people are just interested in efficiencies. It's like man, I don't really want to do something 60 hours a week. You know, I saw my parents or their parents or some general people have this impression that when you grind it something forever, it wears you down and you're used up and you're nothing when you get to the end of it. So it's like I'd rather have a better work-life balance, and that's always a conflict with what you know to. To really be successful at you really can't have work-life balance. You almost have to grind it to a stump to get anywhere.
Speaker 2:And so there's a lot of conflicting information and feelings out there and yeah, Well, I think there's a tension that this was it'd be no surprise that this was my topic that I brought to the table today but I think there's a tension in working hard but then also not losing your identity in work Right, and I think our father's generation was exactly what you just it's like you work, you work, you work, maybe have a little fun on the weekends and hopefully you've got enough saved up that when you're 65, you can retire and you can play golf or take it easy.
Speaker 2:I don't know that generations today are thinking that way at all. I think they're thinking it's it's definitely more of a we work to live, not a live to work, mentality, right, and so I think there's shadow sides of that right. Whereas an employer, it can be tough to get people excited about the mission and get you know all that kind of stuff, and I think there's probably some healthier things in it as well. As far as I know like I've spent a lot of my life with my identity really wrapped up in what I do to where other things suffered, even my own personal health or my family or other things right and like I look back, like, well, that wasn't the answer either.
Speaker 2:So I I thought we'd have just a bit of a conversation on how to crack the code on that.
Speaker 1:And you're going to solve it for us. This is going to be a really long episode.
Speaker 2:How do we help people love what they do but not lose their identity in what they do? I think that's the tension I'm trying to wrestle with.
Speaker 1:I still have a bit of anxiety when you know you're going to meet a new group of people and you know, at some point the question is going to come out what do you do? What do you do? Yeah, I mean, it's just. I don't know if it's just American culture uniquely, but I do feel like people identify you with the work you do.
Speaker 2:Like, if you do X, that's who you are and why do you think that's one of the first questions that get asked. Like? No one asked me like what are you reading? Or what are you like, what's your like? It's usually what do you do is in the top three questions when you meet somebody, right?
Speaker 1:It's got, of course. I think on some level it's um, it's. It's a way to show interest, Like maybe people do have a genuine curiosity. I wonder what that person does for a living, because it will say, hey, I, I at least, spend, you know, probably 40 hours a week of my life doing the thing that I do, and so that clearly identifies them at some place there's, you know, and maybe the shadow side, even if it's unknown, is a. Now I can measure myself against this person If I know what they do. I think it's.
Speaker 2:I think it's a lot of that. I think it's oh, I do. I think there's a lot of that. I think there's a lot, oh, I do. I think it's a lot of well, what you do in in a culture that your identity is so wrapped up in what you do, you make a lot of judgments about a person pretty quick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, when it's like okay, well, and it's probably you ask that question or I asked that question because it's the top of the list for my life, like what I do with my life and what I work and my vocation is can end up being in the driver's seat of the thing that I care the most about, and so if that's true for me, then it's going to be the thing I ask you about, because what are you doing with your life? Like I'm curious, you know, but you can make a lot of assumptions, a lot of judgments about a person, and I do think the American way, the American culture, the American dream, is all about work, it's about the opportunity and I love that right, like I'm so pro that, um, and I'm probably in that camp where I want to work really hard and do something that I love, but I also want to be known and I want to be. I don't want to be associated with just the work.
Speaker 1:You do the work that I do. I mean, there's so many different professions. You know, I've, um, I've got a family member who's, you know, a doctor, and it's like what a great answer to the question what do you do? Oh, I'm a doctor, like you know. Immediately you're on the top of the social hierarchy in that moment because it's like, well, when you, when you have an answer to that question that is respected by culture, they know a there's you've put in time and education, or you must be really smart, you must be a really hard worker. I'm an attorney. There's these professions that well, maybe not attorneys. No offense to attorneys out there.
Speaker 2:I'll piss off our attorneys that are listening.
Speaker 1:There's these impressions that we get that immediately add value to that person. It's like, oh, they do that, that's significant. So there's value, there's significance, there's all these things wrapped up in a quick answer to that question and it really sucks, dude.
Speaker 2:The worst was, I mean, I spent so much of my life as a pastor, yeah, and that was just you're at a party, you're hanging out, you're doing whatever, and you're meeting new people, and it gets to that question yeah, I would wanted to dodge that. So bad because it's not because I I don't think it was because I was ashamed of being a pastor. I think it was how I knew it was going to make them feel once they heard the answer.
Speaker 1:I've got something similar Cause I, you know, we worked at the same church for a long time and so golf was my thing. Obviously, you know, and sometimes you get paired up with a bunch of randos. You know, at best they're drinking beer, at worst they're smoking joints and popping pills you know it can get pretty rowdy out there, but of course you're playing that oh, that's all of them.
Speaker 1:That's right um any other betting and swearing and all this stuff and smoking and like, uh, you know, third or fourth hole. Yeah, what do you do? Yeah, oh crap, you almost want to lie so you don't ruin their fun oh, I try to come up with different.
Speaker 2:I'm an executive creative leader for a non-profit, or because you're the buzzkill in those moments, then they start. Oh, I guess we should watch our mouth around you. Or the best is when they go back and try to pull back one memory from their past that had to do with the church.
Speaker 2:I went to church once, yeah, I drove by a church one time it was on that corner I was like, listen, we don't have to do this right now, but I I think that's a big part of of people's lives. So I mean for just a couple minutes here and we keep this episode short. But what are, what are some ways that we can try to at least wrestle?
Speaker 1:this down.
Speaker 2:What are some, what are some ways to do this, to where I think we'd be doing a disservice if we didn't say that we you and I both believe deeply in hard work and we maybe are a little bit more old souls when it comes to that. Like, if we're going to lean one direction or the other, we're leaning towards man, get in and work hard and let's build something like that. We were pro that, but we're also, you know, raising families and they're married, like we also have other things that are that, if you were to hold us down and say we're going to choose our families and everything else over work, you know, and sometimes our schedules don't necessarily reflect that. So how are some, how are some ways that we can kind of be in this tension?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd love for you to answer it too. The first thing I think about is when. When was the last time you stopped and took inventory of your life and prioritized what's there? Yeah, you know, because we all have parts of ourselves right. We're not just the person that shows up to an office. We're not just the person who's an entrepreneur starting a business, whatever it is. Some of us have families. We're married, we're spouses, Some of us have kids, so we're dads or moms, and if we're not married and don't have kids, you know we're a brother or a sister or a son or a daughter, and there are things about our life that are infinitely more valuable on a lot of levels than the work that we do. You know, monday to Friday and culture has it pretty backwards, you know, cause it's?
Speaker 1:It's not easy to make a judgment or an assumption about somebody. It's like, oh, I'm a, I'm a son of two really great parents and I'm a husband to an awesome wife, I'm a dad to two great kids, like it's like, oh yes, how much money do you make? Like it doesn't answer the question that they really want to know, you know, and so we don't lead with those things. So I think we forget that, that part of ourselves. It's like no, I'm not just the person that does this. And so I think, prioritizing and saying no, let me, let me get some perspective on who I am, and that's going to help shape where I put my time, my energy, my, my money. And so I think I heard somebody say show me someone's calendar and her bank account and I'll show you what's important to them. You know where you spend your time, where you spend your money. Those things reveal your values to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1:And I think, yeah, I think. So stop is just going. Let's, let's prioritize and see where we are. What are our values? What about you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a that's a great one. Um, I yeah, I think for me I have to set boundaries and I have to set boundaries with now that I own my own business. I have to set boundaries with clients. First of all because a lot of times, especially if you have a business where you're serving a lot of clients, a lot of times those clients, they almost treat you like as if you're there they're your only client.
Speaker 1:you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:it's just great from their perspective. Yeah, kind of are right, right, and so if you don't have, if you don't set clarity and boundaries and expectations on the front end, you're gonna work in a lot longer, you know, because you haven't set those boundaries with that client. But more so than that, I gotta set boundaries with myself. Okay, like I have to make sure that I am proactive with my schedule, because if you own your own business, the work never stops. You could just keep working all evening and the weekends and it never so for me. I have to get practical with that. I've got to practical with my phone and my computer and my email and I have to make sure that I kind of cut myself off at certain times or I'll keep going. I'm really bad at that. Yeah, I am too. I'm too.
Speaker 2:I found a couple different.
Speaker 2:I use a program called Motion that helps me really organize my tasks, my calendar and all that kind of stuff and kind of see what I have to do and when I've got time to do it, and it's a huge help for me on that kind of stuff even being able to commit.
Speaker 2:Huge help for me on that kind of stuff, even being able to commit because I can look and say, hey, I actually don't have time on my calendar to pull it off for you this week, but next week I can, based on all the things that I have to do, you know coming up, so that's really helpful. So, setting boundaries for me and the the thing that I'm probably in this season worse at that you're crushing it at is just having a hobby, having something not work related that you do, that you enjoy, that fills you up, that you can look forward to every week. I know for you it's golf, like hey, when you're on the golf course you're probably you might be thinking about work, but you're not thinking about it in terms of it's more dreaming and ideating, like that's. To me that almost doesn't count because that's like that's, that's kind of fun, that's the fun stuff but you're not not necessarily checking emails and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:But that's something that I'm working on, like what is that thing? Whether I'm going fishing or I'm hanging out with the family, that I can just have some hobbies, doing some fun things that aren't work-related, where I shut everything off and I can just concentrate on having some fun. So just a couple of words.
Speaker 1:I saw this interesting post, no-transcript, think that can often give perspective. And ultimately, where I'd like to take a mentor relationship is my wife has encouraged me to do this, I haven't done it yet is to have a personal board Like what does it look like to have a board of? Directors for your life, you know, someone.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm just just. I love the word wisdom. I think there's so much wrapped up in that I always want to be a student of what it's like to study and grow in wisdom and sometimes the wisdom of people who are in your corner. They're for you, but also we're not afraid to tell you tough stuff. To build a, it doesn't have to be like eight people. Find three people that you admire where they are in life, with their relationships, their parenting, their business life, whatever it is. Say, hey, would you, would you take you know a couple hours a quarter and just invest in my life? I'd love to have that happen and I think they can really help shape identity, you know, and help you with boundaries. Especially people have a hard time setting boundaries. Outsource it, see if someone will invest in you and help you do that.
Speaker 2:yeah, I want to do that too, and I think if you're willing to be vulnerable and really let them in, that could be a huge, that could be a huge help, and my my biggest resistance to it is the word we've we've talked about this before is control.
Speaker 1:It's like I don't want someone to tell me to stop doing something I really want to be doing right now when it comes to work.
Speaker 2:We're not doing that.
Speaker 1:That's a non-negotiable. But why do you think, on the positive side, identity gives so much purpose and cachet? Because there's some upside to it. It is a quick and easy way to communicate to someone what you're into. We've talked about some of the negative sides of what identity being wrapped up in work can do. What are the upsides for you?
Speaker 2:can do. What were the upsides for you? Well, I think, if I think purpose matters, right, and I think, if you can fine, we talk a lot about mission, vision, values on the podcast, right, and so hopefully, no matter what you're doing with your work, with your job, you're able to dig a little bit deeper into the philosophical level and say why does what I do matter for the world? Right, I think that's why we're the identity where it's not just like I check the box and you know here's what I do and you know it's like, it's like no, I, I actually bring value to the world with what I do. And I think I would argue that, no matter what your position, no matter where you're at in the org chart, that you can find that philosophical, why, for what you're doing, how you're bringing value, even if you're just serving people, I mean it doesn't matter. So I think on that side of things and a lot of times in some marketing exercises I actually help people with elevator pitch of going through like problem solution, success. So instead of saying I'm just a doctor or a lawyer, whatever it is, you kind of like hey, here's the problem that exists and here's a solution that I bring. And this is what success looks like and it helps people get excited about what they do again because like, oh, it's not, it's, I'm not just checking a box right, just working this nine to five or just devoting all this time for no reason. In the times where you lack motivation, it's.
Speaker 2:It's nice to go back to those values. A lot, like you know I mentioned before in podcast, for us and our core business, it was man. We really want to help thought leaders. I don't care if you're in construction or if you're a doctor or if you're a dentist or if you're whatever. We want to help you can be a therapist. We want to help you get your message out so that you can help more people. On days where I don't love what I do, if I go back to that statement, I'm like oh yeah, that's great. And I think to your point about identity. That's when it's positive, that's when it's going to say, hey, this is the meaning and the value that I actually bring to the world. This is a good thing, that's good.
Speaker 1:I think we all are searching for meaning, significance and purpose. You talked about that right, and in a country like the US where we've got so many rights right to free speech we have a constitution, we've got a bill of rights that tells us what we're allowed to do the side of rights that people forget is that they do come with responsibilities, and I don't think rights give us meaning, but I do think responsibilities do. And if you can belly up to the bar, if this table represents responsibility and I can get my arms around the widest amount of responsibility possible, I think that's where the most meaning and fulfillment comes for people's. Like man, I'm responsible for this. Like I have a duty to this person, I have a duty to this event. I have a duty to my family.
Speaker 1:I'm responsible for this at work, and when you feel responsible for things, there's a lot of purpose and significance that comes from that. It's like people, things, systems are depending on me to get this done, and, of course, you have a right to not do any of that stuff. But I think where meaning and significance really comes in is that responsibility. So sometimes, just when your work identity and your real identity gets mixed up, it's because maybe you do have a lot of responsibility and it does bring you a lot of meaning and it's tough to separate those things Totally, and I think you know we can wrap with this thought that I feel like goes back to what you just said.
Speaker 2:I don't know that there is an answer for this question, right, and that's okay. I don't know that there's like, well, this is how you know. But I do think, if it goes back to the first thing you instructed us to do, which is audit and evaluate, if you're asking the question, you're probably in a good place. If you're going through and you're looking through what matters.
Speaker 2:If you're asking a question like hey, if I lost my ability to do what I could do today, do I still know who I am, why I exist on this planet, bigger than what I do, all those things, which those things are probably pretty closely related if you get down to your gifts and your strengths and your you know why you were put on the planet, then that probably is going to determine what you need to be doing vocationally with your life. But if you lose your vocation and you still know who you are, I think that's important. But I think, as long as we're asking the question auditing then I think we're in a good place. I mean, how bad did you hate that episode? It was fantastic. Next week we can get back to more practical leadership stuff.
Speaker 1:Every once in a while we've got to dip into our feet, feel the way.