The FractionX Podcast
Leadership is Hard. We're here to help.
The FractionX Podcast
What pain do you want in your life?
Life can often be painful. Leading anything meaningful eventually leads to more of it. On this episode Matt and Drew talk about embracing the pain of leadership, how pain can fuel growth and how pain can ignite your passion in a way comfort never could.
So, matt, last episode we talked about fear, and you know, kind of the ugly step cousin to fear is pain, right, they kind of. They kind of go hand in hand and it's something that a lot of leaders experience or are currently experiencing. So we want to dedicate an episode to almost the value.
Speaker 1:These are such uplifting episodes. Let's talk about fear, failure and pain. Tune in, put a smile on your face. I know, dude.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like it's so many of us are living in these places, like in leadership I don't know if we said this on the podcast or before, but the higher up you get in leadership, it's problem solving, it's putting out fires. You think if I get to be a leader, then I get to really like shape my own destiny and I'm just vision all the time and you direction Most of the time. You're just spending more time solving problems, which can be painful. So anyways, you were. You've had some great insights on, specifically on on pain.
Speaker 1:I love to think about pain. Wake up, think about pain. The older you get, the more pain you have.
Speaker 2:I was going to say you can't help but think about pain.
Speaker 1:No, I just you know, every once in a while I have these decent ideas are not always there, but I was. We were driving, my wife and I were driving away from Earrington Vineyard. This was probably like 10 or 15 years ago it was a long time ago and it was a longer drive home because we lived in, like West Nashville and this is like a 45 minute, you know drive or something like that. And I just had this idea. I was like, man, comfort's the goal, Like I want to be comfortable. You know, I was like, oh, but comfort's the enemy, like you just don't get anywhere good when you're comfortable.
Speaker 1:And so I think it's funny to juxtapose comfort and pain, because I do think they go together, but I don't think people think about them the same all the time. Right, and I think, if I back up and want to unpack that statement, it's like man, I want to have resources, I want to go on great vacations, I want to be able to play golf when I want to, I want to be able to provide for my kids, I want comfort. And the problem is, the more comfortable you get, the less chance you have to actually really chase any of those things, because you get really complacent and there's not a lot of value in being comfortable.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's so true. Well, a word that we like to use a lot in our organizations is Lord Passion. Right, that's a more pleasant way of saying it.
Speaker 1:What are you?
Speaker 2:passionate about? What do you love? What are you like? That's a reframing of pain. Well, I think so. I mean, chip Dodd has got a great definition of passion, which is the willingness to endure pain for something greater than pain. So if I'm passionate about something, it means, hey, I will endure a certain measure of pain because what I'm passionate about, what I love, so you're. I'm passionate about my family, okay, well, what pain are you enduring to provide for them, to be for them, whatever? If I'm passionate about my organization? So I think a lot of times we say passion, we forget that that's actually saying I'm willing to endure an immense amount of pain for something that's greater than this pain. But there is an endurance. You know part of it. You know, and I was.
Speaker 2:I was telling you about this basketball player, giannis. I don't even pronounce his last name. It was like Enta Ticcumpo or something like that. He sounds amazing. Yeah Well, my wife and I were watching this documentary on Giannis and I don't know anything about his life.
Speaker 2:I don't know what to say about his life in Greece because they call him the Greek freak. But come to find out is, I think it was Ethiopia is where his family is from. They're refugees. They they fled to Greece for immigrants there and the whole documentary was about his passion, which was when he discovered he had a gift for playing basketball. His whole life became I want to play basketball because I got to get my family out of here, I got to provide for my family and he became a laser focus on. This is the path to my family and for my brothers.
Speaker 2:He had little brothers. He told stories about it being so dangerous to walk through the streets because they weren't wanted there in Greece. It's funny how they want them there now that he plays basketball. They played for the Greek national team, but when he was a kid they didn't want them there. And how he would come up with games to trick his little brothers into running home so they didn't have to feel the fear of like, hey, their life was actually in jeopardy, right, and so placing his career, he makes it to the NBA, but he can't get his, his family, here because of visa reasons.
Speaker 2:And he goes in the front office and he basically says, if you can't get him here, I'm done, I'm out, I'm going to quit, I'm going to go back home, because the whole reason why I'm doing this is the whole reason why we've endured all this pain, why I'm doing all this stuff, is to get them out of here, to get them safe, right, and I was so moved by that. I was like man, the things that he was willing to do, but he never lost focus of his why, of like, why is he doing this? And so I think for us as leaders and in our organizations, it's like we can talk passion, but if we're unwilling to embrace pain, to look at pain, to understand that that's going to be a major part, a major catalyst to our growth and our success is going to be the pain we're willing to endure, then we're going to miss it, we're never going to get to our intended destination.
Speaker 1:And I don't think we're talking about like devastating levels of pain. Obviously those things can shape someone, that can be a catalyst for change, but pain is almost like a bit of a challenge. You know, you can be under challenged, you can be over challenged, you can be appropriately challenged. And there was this long term study done on kids born in 1920, 1921.
Speaker 1:These kids went through the Great Depression right, and it wasn't the rich kids who did the best. They didn't feel the effects of the Great Depression significantly right, so they had fine lives because they weren't massively affected. But they weren't the heroes of the study, the kids who, like their parents, abandoned them and their lives was a complete train wreck. They didn't do well either, but it was kind of that lower middle class that went through the Great Depression that at 10 years old they were taking jobs, they were wearing hand-me-down clothes, they didn't know where their next meal was coming from, but they survived that.
Speaker 1:The long term study showed that these were some of the most successful adults that lived not just like on purpose and successful, but grateful and successful. They had such a gratitude for where they were and you know when you can look back and say, man, I made it through that. If I can get through that, I can get through this, and so I think pain helps give perspective. Totally, you know, and what kind of put me on, you know, this conversation today was like we just don't let our kids experience pain and suffering, you know, and of course we don't want them to like, as parents, like, oh, I don't want you to go through that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we actually feel like that's our whole job. Right Is to keep them from experiencing pain. I mean, I know I do. I'm convicted by that. I'm like man, I don't want my kids to experience any kind of pain. Ultimately, I don't want to either. Right, of course, right, but now it's like, okay, but I'm willing to endure pain. I'm passionate about my kids not enduring pain. Man, it's just such a poor teacher for what?
Speaker 1:Real life is gonna be and you just don't develop any type of coping mechanisms or strategies. And I don't mean like unhealthy coping, I mean going oh no, there's more to me, like I can get through this. And so I think one of the things that I wrote down was there's a pain that you lean into that other people lean away from. There's a fire that you're willing to rush into that others run away from, and that's your leadership superpower. Like I don't know what that is. You know, I think I've got a pretty good idea what that is for me. Some people, when I say that, they're like oh yeah, I'm willing to do this and no one else is willing to do that. And I'm not talking about effort, I'm talking about like I'm just more comfortable stepping into that stress or that pain or that discomfort because I know I can deal with that and I can provide value when I get through that.
Speaker 2:That's interesting, man Cause my brain is going a million different directions right now because thinking about for me personally, what is that? But also for our listeners, like the willingness to run into pain, run into the fire. It really goes hand in hand with that last episode about fear. I think there's a risk and fear tolerance of like hey, there's certain people that are willing to endure a certain amount of pain because they're like I want to be to this certain place in my life and man, I definitely got there in my life. I was like I don't want to wake up and be. I don't want to do that. I'm going to live until I'm 65 and then, hopefully, can retire on a beach somewhere. You know what I'm saying. Like that doesn't sound like a life I want to live. Like I want to enjoy and experience life now. In order to do that, you have to break the mold right, and it's like it goes back to like the comfort thing. It's like, but I want to be in a bigger house, I have a nicer car and go on.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like I want all those other things, but that flies in the face sometimes can not always, but sometimes flies in the face of well, but also I want more time and I want more. You know, I want more peace, I want more stillness and all those things. So how would you, how would you help us, as leaders, navigate this thing? Because, again, you know I'm a seven on the integrated pain is not something that I enjoy living in right.
Speaker 2:But how? What are some practical tools we can do when we experience pain? Right, so it's inevitable, it's going to happen as leaders, it's going to happen. But when that happens, what do we do with it?
Speaker 1:Yeah I think you talked about this before and I remember reading this as well that Richard Rohr talks about pain is the gateway to the second half of life. Yep, right, so I think recognizing it for what it really is is. I think pain is revelatory. Yeah, you know, like if you have a pain in your body, that's your brain saying, hey, something's wrong with your knee or your back or your head. You should do something about that, like, don't ignore it. I think a lot of us. Our first step is to take something that makes the pain go away, rather than find out, hey, what caused the pain. Like I want to deal with the symptoms of this pain, but I don't really want to deal with the cause of that pain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man that's I'm guilty of that and leadership. I think a lot of leaders would rather ignore the pain. It's like we joke before. It's like it's my daughter's the check engine light comes on in her car and oftentimes they'll drive around for weeks and it'll be like, oh, dad, my car broke down or it's having this issue and I'll go and look at it, I'll be able to check engine lights. And how long has it been on for? Oh, that light, I don't even know what that does. That's been on for weeks. I'm like well, that was there to tell you that a problem's gonna come. It's gonna be worse if you don't pay attention to it.
Speaker 2:And I just wonder how many of us, as leaders, were willing to just drive around with a check engine light on for weeks, months, years and then wonder when something in our organization or in our company or in our own personal lives implodes. Well, there was warning signs all along you to pay attention to, but our unwillingness to look and pay attention to pain I love that you said that, cause I think that is so, so key to allow ourselves to feel it but then move past that into all right. It's a symptom of something. This pain is telling me something. I wanna address it. What do we do when we get to that point? If we're willing to like take a look at it and say, okay, there's a pain point, I'm feeling it, I'm gonna allow myself to feel it. But now I'm in a place where, well, I need to do something about it. I just wanna just live in pain. What does that next step look like for us as leaders?
Speaker 1:I think it might be leveraging the pain Like there's upside, once you understand. Okay, this is here and I'm the kind of leader that can get through this, not talking about bootstrap, and say, no, let's evaluate it, what's it there for? What can I turn this into? How can I make this weakness more of a strength? And so I think it's. How do we leverage the pain that we experience in leadership?
Speaker 2:I also wonder how often we can actually do it on our own. You know, I just think that. The car example I need a mechanic. If I'm feeling pain, I need a doctor. A physical pain, I'm gonna need a doctor. If I'm having some mental or emotional pain, I'm gonna need a therapist, or I'm gonna need a you know or a friend or something else. It's gonna be a leadership. If I'm, if we're going through some pain points and leadership, I'm gonna need some help. I'm gonna need some. It could be someone already on my team, it could be a leader of mine, it could be a mentor. But I'm just curious how much of the of the pain can we actually navigate through ourselves?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we we love self diagnosis. Yeah Right, yeah, I have ADHD. Like did you get diagnosed with that? No, I just can't pay attention. We love to have a label for the thing that pains us.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because it feels like it gives us some type of identity or maybe power over that and you're like you're not actually dealing with what you're you're challenged with and I like the idea of bringing someone else in and be like, no, can you see this differently than I do? Like I'm so close to this pain that I'm experiencing that I don't really see what it's for. Can you help me make sense of this and it's.
Speaker 2:It's what it's really what we love doing with fraction X, because we love getting our hands dirty with leaders. Like we don't want to be the web MD of leadership, where you just Google something and you hear it and you're like, try it, like I think that's kind of what you're saying. It's like when you're feeling pain. A lot of people want to self diagnose. They want to go online and be like oh, I think I have this. Well, oftentimes it's poorly diagnosed or it's they make it worse than what it is or whatever else. It's like it's not until you go see someone or you're with someone that can actually help you look at it and navigate the next steps through it. But any, any final words on this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you know, when we talked about the work on it calendar, um, in a previous episode, I said there's this turning points profile that we do sometimes when we're helping leaders understand their business and when we go backwards in our organization or even if we just go backwards in our own leadership story. We rarely are going back and looking at highlights like man. It was so dope when we sold, you know, a million units of this.
Speaker 1:Right, those are great moments, but so much when we're looking back in the review. We're looking at moments when we overcame adversity, when we overcame a pain point, when we overcame something that probably should have crippled our business or crippled our leadership, and somehow we got through it. Like those moments are the moments like that built our business. That's the story of our company. We could have, should have, shut down. We found a way around it and now you know, like anything that comes down the pipe in the future, dude, we can handle this. Like we got this.