The Fractional Leader Podcast
Leadership is Hard. We're here to help.
The Fractional Leader Podcast
What Do You DO?
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Can you love what you do and not lose yourself while you do it?
Is finding the balance even possible?
On this episode we discuss a couple strategies to help prioritize the things that matter most, and where meaning, purpose, and significance really come from.
Navigating Work-Life Balance and Identity
Speaker 2Matt , do you ever feel like you were born in the wrong generation ?
Speaker 1Man yeah , all the time you .
Speaker 2No , I just feel like you , I feel that way about you .
Speaker 1Yeah , a dream of mine when I was I don't know 20 . Mine when I was a I don't know 20 or 30 , something , was to wake up on Saturday morning and go to Hardee's with a bunch of old guys and just gripe about kids driving too fast .
Speaker 2You know you entered the crotchety old man stage a lot sooner than most people . It's a facade .
Speaker 1It's not real . That's true . True , I'm really a joyful person you are .
Speaker 2You are well , the reason why I asked that is because there's in the work you kind of have an old soul in the workforce , right , and I think it's probably you know the way you were raised in your family system and you have a real hard-working father . I mean , you come from like , yeah , you're a hard work guy , you know , and I love that , I think that's great . And then there's as the generations kind of emerge . We're in this place where maybe let me ask this in a question , not a statement but do you feel like the value of hard work and work ethic is starting to be diminished , as it was like , you know , maybe our father's generation ?
Speaker 1Yeah , absolutely there's . There's no getting around it . I thought that was a pretty softball question . Well , I think I'm . There's a hundred reasons that I don't think we have time to go through all of them . But I mean , technology has made work easier . Okay , right , we can . We can do things now with technology that you know would have taken we talked about analog on the last show . That would have taken weeks to automate , you know , before . Now .
Speaker 1It's like man , we can do this all with AI on a lot of levels . And then I think people are just interested in efficiencies . It's like man , I don't really want to do something 60 hours a week . You know , I saw my parents or their parents or some general people have this impression that when you grind it something forever , it wears you down and you're used up and you're nothing when you get to the end of it . So it's like I'd rather have a better work-life balance , and that's always a conflict with what you know to . To really be successful at you really can't have work-life balance . You almost have to grind it to a stump to get anywhere .
Speaker 2And so there's a lot of conflicting information and feelings out there and yeah , Well , I think there's a tension that this was it'd be no surprise that this was my topic that I brought to the table today but I think there's a tension in working hard but then also not losing your identity in work Right , and I think our father's generation was exactly what you just it's like you work , you work , you work , maybe have a little fun on the weekends and hopefully you've got enough saved up that when you're 65 , you can retire and you can play golf or take it easy .
Speaker 2I don't know that generations today are thinking that way at all . I think they're thinking it's it's definitely more of a we work to live , not a live to work , mentality , right , and so I think there's shadow sides of that right . Whereas an employer , it can be tough to get people excited about the mission and get you know all that kind of stuff , and I think there's probably some healthier things in it as well . As far as I know like I've spent a lot of my life with my identity really wrapped up in what I do to where other things suffered , even my own personal health or my family or other things right and like I look back , like , well , that wasn't the answer either .
Speaker 2So I I thought we'd have just a bit of a conversation on how to crack the code on that .
Speaker 1And you're going to solve it for us . This is going to be a really long episode .
Speaker 2How do we help people love what they do but not lose their identity in what they do ? I think that's the tension I'm trying to wrestle with .
Speaker 1I still have a bit of anxiety when you know you're going to meet a new group of people and you know , at some point the question is going to come out what do you do ? What do you do ? Yeah , I mean , it's just . I don't know if it's just American culture uniquely , but I do feel like people identify you with the work you do .
Speaker 2Like , if you do X , that's who you are and why do you think that's one of the first questions that get asked . Like ? No one asked me like what are you reading ? Or what are you like , what's your like ? It's usually what do you do is in the top three questions when you meet somebody , right ?
Speaker 1It's got , of course . I think on some level it's um , it's . It's a way to show interest , Like maybe people do have a genuine curiosity . I wonder what that person does for a living , because it will say , hey , I , I at least , spend , you know , probably 40 hours a week of my life doing the thing that I do , and so that clearly identifies them at some place there's , you know , and maybe the shadow side , even if it's unknown , is a . Now I can measure myself against this person If I know what they do . I think it's .
Speaker 2I think it's a lot of that . I think it's oh , I do . I think there's a lot of that . I think there's a lot , oh , I do . I think it's a lot of well , what you do in in a culture that your identity is so wrapped up in what you do , you make a lot of judgments about a person pretty quick .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , when it's like okay , well , and it's probably you ask that question or I asked that question because it's the top of the list for my life , like what I do with my life and what I work and my vocation is can end up being in the driver's seat of the thing that I care the most about , and so if that's true for me , then it's going to be the thing I ask you about , because what are you doing with your life ? Like I'm curious , you know , but you can make a lot of assumptions , a lot of judgments about a person , and I do think the American way , the American culture , the American dream , is all about work , it's about the opportunity and I love that right , like I'm so pro that , um , and I'm probably in that camp where I want to work really hard and do something that I love , but I also want to be known and I want to be . I don't want to be associated with just the work .
Speaker 1You do the work
Balancing Work and Personal Life
Speaker 1that I do . I mean , there's so many different professions . You know , I've , um , I've got a family member who's , you know , a doctor , and it's like what a great answer to the question what do you do ? Oh , I'm a doctor , like you know . Immediately you're on the top of the social hierarchy in that moment because it's like , well , when you , when you have an answer to that question that is respected by culture , they know a there's you've put in time and education , or you must be really smart , you must be a really hard worker . I'm an attorney . There's these professions that well , maybe not attorneys . No offense to attorneys out there .
Speaker 2I'll piss off our attorneys that are listening .
Speaker 1There's these impressions that we get that immediately add value to that person . It's like , oh , they do that , that's significant . So there's value , there's significance , there's all these things wrapped up in a quick answer to that question and it really sucks , dude .
Speaker 2The worst was , I mean , I spent so much of my life as a pastor , yeah , and that was just you're at a party , you're hanging out , you're doing whatever , and you're meeting new people , and it gets to that question yeah , I would wanted to dodge that . So bad because it's not because I I don't think it was because I was ashamed of being a pastor . I think it was how I knew it was going to make them feel once they heard the answer .
Speaker 1I've got something similar Cause I , you know , we worked at the same church for a long time and so golf was my thing . Obviously , you know , and sometimes you get paired up with a bunch of randos . You know , at best they're drinking beer , at worst they're smoking joints and popping pills you know it can get pretty rowdy out there , but of course you're playing that oh , that's all of them .
Speaker 1That's right um any other betting and swearing and all this stuff and smoking and like , uh , you know , third or fourth hole . Yeah , what do you do ? Yeah , oh crap , you almost want to lie so you don't ruin their fun oh , I try to come up with different .
Speaker 2I'm an executive creative leader for a non-profit , or because you're the buzzkill in those moments , then they start . Oh , I guess we should watch our mouth around you . Or the best is when they go back and try to pull back one memory from their past that had to do with the church .
Speaker 2I went to church once , yeah , I drove by a church one time it was on that corner I was like , listen , we don't have to do this right now , but I I think that's a big part of of people's lives . So I mean for just a couple minutes here and we keep this episode short . But what are , what are some ways that we can try to at least wrestle ?
Speaker 1this down .
Speaker 2What are some , what are some ways to do this , to where I think we'd be doing a disservice if we didn't say that we you and I both believe deeply in hard work and we maybe are a little bit more old souls when it comes to that . Like , if we're going to lean one direction or the other , we're leaning towards man , get in and work hard and let's build something like that . We were pro that , but we're also , you know , raising families and they're married , like we also have other things that are that , if you were to hold us down and say we're going to choose our families and everything else over work , you know , and sometimes our schedules don't necessarily reflect that . So how are some , how are some ways that we can kind of be in this tension ?
Speaker 1Yeah , I'd love for you to answer it too . The first thing I think about is when . When was the last time you stopped and took inventory of your life and prioritized what's there ? Yeah , you know , because we all have parts of ourselves right . We're not just the person that shows up to an office . We're not just the person who's an entrepreneur starting a business , whatever it is . Some of us have families . We're married , we're spouses , Some of us have kids , so we're dads or moms , and if we're not married and don't have kids , you know we're a brother or a sister or a son or a daughter , and there are things about our life that are infinitely more valuable on a lot of levels than the work that we do . You know , monday to Friday and culture has it pretty backwards , you know , cause it's ?
Speaker 1It's not easy to make a judgment or an assumption about somebody . It's like , oh , I'm a , I'm a son of two really great parents and I'm a husband to an awesome wife , I'm a dad to two great kids , like it's like , oh yes , how much money do you make ? Like it doesn't answer the question that they really want to know , you know , and so we don't lead with those things . So I think we forget that , that part of ourselves . It's like no , I'm not just the person that does this . And so I think , prioritizing and saying no , let me , let me get some perspective on who I am , and that's going to help shape where I put my time , my energy , my , my money . And so I think I heard somebody say show me someone's calendar and her bank account and I'll show you what's important to them . You know where you spend your time , where you spend your money . Those things reveal your values to me .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's great .
Speaker 1And I think , yeah , I think . So stop is just going . Let's , let's prioritize and see where we are . What are our values ? What about you ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I think that's a that's a great one . Um , I yeah , I think for me I have to set boundaries and I have to set boundaries with now that I own my own business . I have to set boundaries with clients . First of all because a lot of times , especially if you have a business where you're serving a lot of clients , a lot of times those clients , they almost treat you like as if you're there they're your only client .
Speaker 1you know what I'm saying ?
Speaker 2it's just great from their perspective . Yeah , kind of are right , right , and so if you don't have , if you don't set clarity and boundaries and expectations on the front end , you're gonna work in a lot longer , you know , because you haven't set those boundaries with that client . But more so than that , I gotta set boundaries with myself . Okay , like I have to make sure that I am proactive with my schedule , because if you own your own business , the work never stops . You could just keep working all evening and the weekends and it never so for me . I have to get practical with that . I've got to practical with my phone and my computer and my email and I have to make sure that I kind of cut myself off at certain times or I'll keep going . I'm really bad at that . Yeah , I am too . I'm too .
Speaker 2I found a couple different .
Speaker 2I use a program called Motion that helps me really organize my tasks , my calendar and all that kind of stuff and kind of see what I have to do and when I've got time to do it , and it's a huge help for me on that kind of stuff even being able to commit .
Speaker 2Huge help for me on that kind of stuff , even being able to commit because I can look and say , hey , I actually don't have time on my calendar to pull it off for you this week , but next week I can , based on all the things that I have to do , you know coming up , so that's really helpful . So , setting boundaries for me and the the thing that I'm probably in this season worse at that you're crushing it at is just having a hobby , having something not work related that you do , that you enjoy , that fills you up , that you can look forward to every week . I know for you it's golf , like hey , when you're on the golf course you're probably you might be thinking about work , but you're not thinking about it in terms of it's more dreaming and ideating , like that's . To me that almost doesn't count because that's like that's , that's kind of fun , that's the fun stuff but you're not not necessarily checking emails and all that stuff .
Speaker 2But that's something that I'm working on , like what is that thing ? Whether I'm going fishing or I'm hanging out with the family , that I can just have some hobbies , doing some fun things that aren't work-related , where I shut everything off and I can just concentrate on having some fun . So just a couple of words .
Speaker 1I saw this interesting post , no-transcript , think that can often give perspective . And ultimately , where I'd like to take a mentor relationship is my wife has encouraged me to do this , I haven't done it yet is to have a personal board Like what does it look like to have a board of ? Directors for your life , you know , someone .
Speaker 1You know , I'm just just . I love the word wisdom . I think there's so much wrapped up in that I always want to be a student of what it's like to study and grow in wisdom and sometimes the wisdom of people who are in your corner . They're for you , but also we're not afraid to tell you tough stuff . To build a , it doesn't have to be like eight people . Find three people that you admire where they are in life , with their relationships , their parenting , their business life , whatever it is . Say , hey , would you , would you take you know a couple hours a quarter and just invest in my life ? I'd love to have that happen and I think they can really help shape identity , you know , and help you with boundaries . Especially people have a hard time setting boundaries . Outsource it , see if someone will invest in you and help you do that .
Speaker 2yeah , I want to do that too , and I think if you're willing to be vulnerable and really let them in , that could be a huge , that could be a huge help , and my my biggest resistance to it is the word we've we've talked about this before is control .
Speaker 1It's like I don't want someone to tell me to stop doing something I really want to be doing right now when it comes to work .
Speaker 2We're not doing that .
Speaker 1That's a non-negotiable . But why do you think , on the positive side , identity gives so much purpose and cachet ? Because there's some upside to it . It is a quick and easy way to communicate to someone what you're into . We've talked about some of the negative sides of what identity being wrapped up in work can do . What are the upsides for you ?
Speaker 2can do . What were the upsides for you ? Well , I think , if I think purpose matters , right , and I think , if you can fine , we talk a lot about mission , vision , values on the podcast , right , and so hopefully , no matter what you're doing with your work , with your job , you're able to dig a little bit deeper into the philosophical level and say why does what I do matter for the world ? Right , I think that's why we're the identity where it's not just like I check the box and you know here's what I do and you know it's like , it's like no , I , I actually bring value to the world with what I do . And I think I would argue that , no matter what your position , no matter where you're at in the org chart , that you can find that philosophical , why , for what you're doing , how you're bringing value , even if you're just serving people , I mean it doesn't matter . So I think on that side of things and a lot of times in some marketing exercises I actually help people with elevator pitch of going through like problem solution , success . So instead of saying I'm just a doctor or a lawyer , whatever it is , you kind of like hey , here's the problem that exists and here's a solution that I bring . And this is what success looks like and it helps people get excited about what they do again because like , oh , it's not , it's , I'm not just checking a box right , just working this nine to five or just devoting all this time for no reason . In the times where you lack motivation , it's .
Speaker 2It's nice to go back to those values . A lot , like you know I mentioned before in podcast , for us and our core business , it was man . We really want to help thought leaders . I don't care if you're in construction or if you're a doctor or if you're a dentist or if you're whatever . We want to help you can be a therapist . We want to help you get your message out so that you can help more people . On days where I don't love what I do , if I go back to that statement , I'm like oh yeah , that's great . And I think to your point about identity . That's when it's positive , that's when it's going to say , hey , this is the meaning and the value that I actually bring to the world . This is a good thing , that's good .
Speaker 1I think we all are searching for meaning , significance and purpose
The Meaning of Responsibility and Identity
Speaker 1. You talked about that right , and in a country like the US where we've got so many rights right to free speech we have a constitution , we've got a bill of rights that tells us what we're allowed to do the side of rights that people forget is that they do come with responsibilities , and I don't think rights give us meaning , but I do think responsibilities do . And if you can belly up to the bar , if this table represents responsibility and I can get my arms around the widest amount of responsibility possible , I think that's where the most meaning and fulfillment comes for people's . Like man , I'm responsible for this . Like I have a duty to this person , I have a duty to this event . I have a duty to my family .
Speaker 1I'm responsible for this at work , and when you feel responsible for things , there's a lot of purpose and significance that comes from that . It's like people , things , systems are depending on me to get this done , and , of course , you have a right to not do any of that stuff . But I think where meaning and significance really comes in is that responsibility . So sometimes , just when your work identity and your real identity gets mixed up , it's because maybe you do have a lot of responsibility and it does bring you a lot of meaning and it's tough to separate those things Totally , and I think you know we can wrap with this thought that I feel like goes back to what you just said .
Speaker 2I don't know that there is an answer for this question , right , and that's okay . I don't know that there's like , well , this is how you know . But I do think , if it goes back to the first thing you instructed us to do , which is audit and evaluate , if you're asking the question , you're probably in a good place . If you're going through and you're looking through what matters .
Speaker 2If you're asking a question like hey , if I lost my ability to do what I could do today , do I still know who I am , why I exist on this planet , bigger than what I do , all those things , which those things are probably pretty closely related if you get down to your gifts and your strengths and your you know why you were put on the planet , then that probably is going to determine what you need to be doing vocationally with your life . But if you lose your vocation and you still know who you are , I think that's important . But I think , as long as we're asking the question auditing then I think we're in a good place . I mean , how bad did you hate that episode ? It was fantastic . Next week we can get back to more practical leadership stuff .
Speaker 1Every once in a while we've got to dip into our feet , feel the way .