The Fractional Leader Podcast
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The Fractional Leader Podcast
"Shiny Penny Syndrome"
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Have you ever been captivated by the glint of a 'shiny penny'?
We've all worked for those leaders and some of us have even been those leaders—chasing the thrill of every possible new idea.
On today's episode, we peel back the curtain on the Shiny Penny Syndrome (S.P.S.), and talk about how to understand it, manage it, and how help our teams with it.
Analyzing the Shiny Penny Syndrome
Speaker 2Matt , sometimes these episodes are like personal therapy sessions for me that are live recorded . We're not charging enough . I should be charging you because what I want to talk about today is something that is important to me . It's something that I've wrestled with and maybe , maybe , struggled with , but I want to get into it with you . You brought up this idea of the shiny penny syndrome . Yeah , here's how I interpreted it .
Speaker 2Okay , it's for leaders like myself , who get real excited about the next new idea , the next new thing , so I can get drawn in . It's why I need a partner like you in my life , someone who can come in the business and say great idea , not yet Great idea or not great idea , this is off course , but I love the next , next , the new . What's fun , what drains me , is maintaining , sustaining , yeah , consistency . I love spontaneity , all those things . Now , I don't want to feel shame in this , like that's a superpower on one hand , but it can also be , you know , detrimental . It could be , or at least something that's very frustrating , at the least for the rest of the team , the rest of the team who are just showing up and faithful , yeah , and consistent . So before I dive in , I got some questions I want to ask you before I dive in , just comment on this idea of the shiny penny .
Speaker 1yeah , you know , I think there is something innate in founders where they , um , what caused them to start a business or a company was man . There's this problem I'm having and I think I can go solve it with by this thing . So , like you said , it is a superpower for a lot of people to recognize what's new and what's next , and it can be people that bring them energy . They're excited to bring them on the team . It can be a product or service , whatever it is , and , like you said , if you are building a team who has been faithful and consistent with you , it can sometimes be frustrating that their leader gets distracted so often . So , actually , when I thought about this topic like I don't want to make this a moral judgment , good or bad , I think it's both I'd love for shiny penny syndrome leaders to recognize hey , it's got some upside , but I do pay a cost .
Speaker 2Did you coin that phrase , by the way , or did you steal it from ?
Speaker 1I've never heard it before . I don't know . I think I made it up . If not , we'll give credit where credit might not be due .
Speaker 2We have it recorded here now that yeah , yeah , trademarked .
Speaker 1Yeah , exactly .
Speaker 2Copyright . Well , and I guess my first question to you would be this A big part of what we're trying to do with leaders . We talk about self-awareness a lot , so help me understand . If there's a leader listening to this , that's curious . Like man , have I fallen prey to this shiny penny syndrome before Unpack what that might look like in a leader ?
Speaker 1Okay , Well , let me ask you a question first , okay , Answer my question with a question . That's right , just like Jesus Did you just compare yourself to Jesus . Wow , I'm a disciple You're very Christ-like Following in his footsteps , so you made me lose track of that .
Speaker 2Thanks a lot .
Speaker 1I've worked for founders , several who I would say fall into this category of shiny penny syndrome . And again , it's not a moral judgment , not a good or bad , do you know , because I think you probably would categorize yourself as the shiny penny syndrome guy Absolutely . Do you know when that's happening to you , like , do you know ? Like , oh , I'm off course , I'm getting distracted , I'm following what's new and what's exciting .
Speaker 2I do now , okay , but that's probably relatively new Gotcha For me . Um , I mean , this happens a lot in my marriage , okay , probably where it shows up the most Right , but in all areas of my life I just I'm an I'm an energy person . I'm drawn to certain energies I'm drawn to'm an energy person . I'm drawn to certain energies I'm drawn to . I can actually remember I made a really bad hire one time and I made it with your wife , ashley . We were interviewing somebody .
Speaker 2I think Ashley , in her best way , tried to warn me against this , but I was just , I was just drawn to an energy of a person and it turned out to be a terrible fit and we were talking about random things and I think Ashley was in the conversation and we laughed about it , looked back at it and she was like I lost you , you were gone , there was no talking you out of this person and it had nothing to do about the job . I just love this idea of the energy of the person . It had nothing to do about the job . I just love this idea of the like , the energy of the person .
Speaker 2Now I I feel it and a lot of times what I need is the space to just kind of dream it . And and I have a daughter , that's this way too okay that when she's like man , I think instead of going to college I'm gonna travel the world and whatever I don't say , I don't start going practical on her yet . I was like man , that's , that's a fun idea , that's great . And just kind of dream with her a little bit , travel the world and whatever I don't say , I don't start going practical on her yet . I was like man , that's , that's a fun idea , that's great . And just kind of dream with her a little bit . For me , if I'm given a little bit of space to dream and to process , I'll normally come back around to now .
Speaker 1That's that's not a great idea .
Speaker 2You need to work the idea out from like start to beginning I'm just an external verbal processor and what I realize in leadership is that not everybody wants to take that adventure with me . Yeah , there's a lot of fear for people like you have to know who you can dream with , who you can process with , who you can you know , because a lot of feelings come up when you have the shiny penny thing , like , okay , is he on to the next person and does he not see what I'm doing and contributing ? Yeah , um , what about the , the old goals and the old visions that we have that I'm working every day to accomplish ? Is that out the window now ? Are we now right doing this new thing ? And there's all my work wasted because we're going this direction ? Most of the time , for me , the answers to all those things are no . Yeah , I just needed something , I'm just riffing , I'm just excited .
Speaker 1Well , I think so . I would say I'm probably more of , like you know , steady Eddie type of person . There are definitely things that distract me and are my shiny pennies . For me Usually it's ideas and philosophies and stuff I'm like , ooh , that's kind of cool , I like the way that sounds , but take that aside . Um , I think people underestimate how much energy it takes to launch a business . If you think about rocket fuel to launch a rocket off the earth , the gravitational pull of the earth to bring something down , it takes so much energy to launch that rocket . That's the same way with a business . And so once you get a business launch and it takes so much energy for the founder to keep it going , so of course they're going to be drawn to things that bring energy back into them , because their whole life , their whole life is pushing energy back out into the world . And so when there's an idea or a person or a potential new hire that gives them energy and put some wind in their sails like I want that person on my team right now , yeah .
Speaker 2Well , I'm going to make a statement that I don't . It might be a hot take and it may not be true , for it's not true for everybody , but when you hear a leader that is super excited about a new direction , new thing , whatever , what you should kind of read behind the wall of that it's probably some level of fear , anxiety , that what we're currently doing is not going to work , or I'm I'm tired of it or I I don't know what to do with this . It's almost hedging against those ideas with a new one . Yeah , absolutely . And what triggered that idea for me is and when I took the journey in entrepreneurship , the hardest thing for me to do and still one of the hardest things for me to do is to focus on , because what I'll do is I'll start multiple .
Speaker 2I looked up at one time and I think I had five or six businesses going of just being like , hey , let me focus on one . Yeah , make that really successful and then , once that's up and going , either turn it off or or not . Turn off , turn it over or sell it or hand it off . That's what I was gonna say . Hand it off , and now let me focus on this , because I will be a serial entrepreneur for sure , like I won't do one thing for the rest of my life . I have to do something different or have other things going . I just can't do them all at once .
Speaker 2Yeah , right , and so if I was coming in and consulting , you know , my business on any given day , what I would tell myself is drew focus , yeah , but the reason why I'm not focusing is I'm I'm scared to death like what if this is ? What if this other idea is actually the idea ? What if this other idea is actually the thing that's going to make me more money or is going to whatever in what I'm doing now ? Because all my ideas in my head are great and all of them are going to work , you know . And so I think , if you can have a little bit of empathy for the leader that is doing that and see behind the veil a little bit , that is them . You know , I had a therapist once told me that the future is the safest place for me , because it's full of hope , it's full of opportunity . The present is scary , the past doesn't even exist .
Speaker 1So I don't want to worry about that .
Speaker 2But the present is scary , but the future is full of hope . But at the same time and I'd love for you to speak about , this is we can give our leaders empathy . But if we're talking to our leaders who are doing this , let's talk a little bit about the impact that that can have on the people around us .
Speaker 1Yeah , for sure . You know , I think I like that word empathy because I want to have that , especially for founders and senior leaders in organizations , because very few people understand how much pressure they carry , how many things are navigating . You know , it's like how we got to make payroll in a couple of weeks . Cash flow is tight . We haven't closed this other deal , the contract's in , but we haven't got our first check . There's just so much pressure , right . And so , of course , if something gives you wind in your sails and gives you energy , yeah , absolutely , I totally get you wanting to be attracted to the thing that is going to fill your tank back up .
Managing Shiny Penny Syndrome in Leadership
Speaker 1I think one of my criticisms potentially of the shiny penny syndrome is a lot of times people look for the answer to be out there somewhere . Oh , if I could just hire this one person , or if I get this role , or man , if we had this one idea or this one product . It's like there's a silver bullet out there and it's going to solve my problems . There's a silver bullet out there and it's going to solve my problems and it's like man and you said it focused effort like cheetah , like gazelle , intensity I'm going to chase this down . That kind of thing leads to success . I'm going to go get this with all my focus .
Speaker 1But what we think is oh , I saw this person and they had this one solution and that worked in that business . What if I hired them on my team ? Maybe they'll solve that for me too . Or they had this one solution and that worked in that business . What if I hired them on my team ? Maybe they'll solve that for me too . Or I saw this one strategy on Instagram . Maybe that'll help me too . So it's we want to outsource to an expert , somebody else , make this problem go away for me . And so the new and shiny thing a lot of times promises to solve that . Yep .
Speaker 2Tell me what you think about this . I just heard this recently is that there is a myth around multiple streams of income . When it comes to , like the , the wealthiest people have multiple streams of income . The myth is that that's how you gain wealth . When this person that was talking and I forget who it was , it was Rory I saw it too .
Speaker 1Was it Rory ? It was Rory . Dang it Rory . Yes , he's always right Always .
Speaker 2Um , yeah , go Rory , yes , he's always right Always . Yeah , go look up Rory . Great company with brand builders , and he was saying that all he referenced Warren Buffett , elon Musk that they all started with one company and they focused and they built that company until it was successful . And then Multiple streams later . Right , so we only see the multiple streams and think , well , that's the way I'm going to be successful , I'm gonna have all these things , when actually the path to that was , you know , success in one area , focus on one area . Is that true ?
Speaker 1do you feel like that's true ? Well , I mean , of course , there's always going to be exceptions , and so I think it's probably more true than it's not right . But I think people who are wired like you like I want to be a serial entrepreneur , entrepreneur , I want to start things about ideas . I'm excited about them . I don't want to put a muzzle on people like that because you can kill creativity , kill excitement , and so it's it's little , it's it's more like how do we coach someone who's wired like you to be focused for a season ? And so when it comes to new business ideas , it's it's rarely like no , it's like hey , hey , not right now , yeah , and that's kind of more the direction I would say well I .
Speaker 2I've had a , a friend and it's a mutual friend of ours um coach , anagram coach , and she told me she's like listen , with your personality , it's good for you to have two or three . Yeah , like , you need a passing lane . You need to every once in a while . Now you still have to discipline yourself with your schedule . So , like for me and my weekly schedule , I've got it relatively locked in now . Like I , the things I have to do to provide for my family , like serving my current clients well , running my business well , that gets the first part of my week . It's great . I don't do anything else until all that stuff is done well . I feel like I've served my clients well . And then the back half of the week is when I can start working on , you know , some other things . It's good . So for me , it's good to say , okay , I can have two , two and a half , right . So right now I have about that . I've got about two and a half . It feels very manageable for me at the moment .
Speaker 2There was a season where I was like this is not , I cannot do all this and all of it was , was failing . And so , to your point , depending on your personality , I think it's okay to have a few things , but , you know , not at the detriment . And the one thing I was going to say , too , is that you have to , as a leader , you have to be careful who you dream with . Yeah , that's good , you just have to .
Speaker 2And I think you and I both have worked for leaders where we would land something and then the very next meeting , it wasn't , and there's only so many times I can do that before I'm like , hey , I'm out , like you got to pick it or stick it at some level . You have to land it . We've got to make some progress , because I'm not as a leader , we're just not going to spin our wheels for that long . But you do have to have a safe place where you can process these ideas , where you can talk about them . And you got to know the people on your team . I think I had one or two people on my team that I could dream with , and they would get excited and not overwhelmed . Yeah , the rest of them were like it's , it's too much , like we can't , we don't , or they would read into it right way further into it . And , honestly , my wife is that way too .
Speaker 2She's not not one that loves , she takes the dream literally right oh she gets , she's scared because she , oh , we're going up and move , we're going to . What does this mean for , like she starts , I'm like I'm just having fun , right , I'm just dreaming a little bit Now , you know . And so whether that's something that we can help provide through fraction x , whether that's , you know , you don't necessarily have to hire it , you can go and have you know , get into a , uh , a think tank , or what is it ?
Speaker 1called mastermind , yeah , something like that . Well , I think you know a lot of leaders who don't address the self-awareness it takes to not be overwhelmed by shiny penny syndrome are doomed to lead small organizations . And here's what I mean by that . Yeah , if you think about like a cruise ship , right , if they have to change direction , um , suddenly , it still takes them a long time to get that giant ship turning in a different direction .
Speaker 1But if you're driving a Sea-Doo jet ski , you want to take a left-hand turn , you're doing 60 , you just do it . And so I had this idea that if you want to steer fast , drive a small boat . So if you're a pivoter , if you're an iterator , if you're always constantly changing things , well , you can lead an organization that can be adaptable and adjust and change and move with you . But if you want to lead a large , influential company , you've got to get that shiny penny syndrome thing managed where you're not trying to pivot . Because what happens is if you turn a big boat fast , two things happen One people get sick , or two they fall off the boat . Like there's just no way you can control that thing turning fast when it's that big and not get people hurt .
Speaker 2That's really wise man , like well as you're talking , you know . What I was thinking is that , and you started out . It's not right or wrong . Right Like see-do is freaking fun , a hundred percent I almost died on one when I was in high school .
Speaker 1It was awesome , really yeah .
Speaker 2It's probably how you feel partnering a business with me on the back of a Sea-Doo half the time and a cruise ship is fun . There's more people on it , right , you know what I mean ?
Speaker 1You can go further , yeah .
Speaker 2There's so many different things but one's not right or wrong and honestly , like I said , you can have as much fun . Meaning purpose money , I mean the bigger the organization , the more it costs . I mean different things like that . So , as you're scaling your company , I think those are questions to ask yourself . Like bigger doesn't mean better necessarily for that personality . It doesn't even mean more money . It could mean less money for a long time to scale it . So I think that's a great analogy for our leaders that are listening to ask themselves like it man . It just goes back to self-awareness . Like what kind of leader am I ? What kind of business do I want to have ?
Speaker 1When I look down the road , am I seeing a bunch of people around the table or am I just like having a blast jumping waves on the seat and I think we've both seen examples of senior leaders blowing up their organization because they miss what it was like when they first got started and they could pivot and they could adjust and they could make adaptations to it as quick as they wanted to . And sometimes they build something that's bigger than they meant for it to get and it's like oh crap , I lost all my autonomy now .
Speaker 2Right , because a lot of times , these leaders have a lot . I mean , they're inspiring , they've got charisma . You want to do what they're doing and then they get it , and they get all these people around them and they don't have the the tools , the capacity or even the desire to lead what they've built right . They're like man . That's this . This is awful . I never wanted to , you know , so I think that's that's really important . Anything else , any last words on this , this shiny penny thing , because I , I love this . This concept is really helpful for me . I think you know , if you're a shiny penny thing , cause I , I love this , this concept is really helpful for me .
Speaker 1I think you know if you're a shiny penny leader , um , give some grace to your steady Eddie's , you know . I think they really help make the world turn , you know . So you talked about like you couldn't dream with everybody on your team because some people would go to they take it too far . What does it mean if I have to do this ? And so you actually need those people because they're going to implement those crazy great ideas you have and they're going to give you know feet to that vision . So it takes both , um , you need some people that are going to give you energy and bring that kind of level of intensity and excitement and dream with you , but don't neglect the people who have helped you build it to where it's successful now .
Speaker 2Can I just make a remark on that , because I think there's . I wanted to give you the last word . No , you do it . Wrap it up
Embracing Feedback for Growth
Speaker 2. Here's a bit of a confession .
Speaker 2In my unhealthier seasons , I would intentionally keep the steady eddies away from my ideas because I did not want their feedback , because I did not want them to tell me we couldn't do it , what was wrong with it , whatever . So I would keep really great leaders at bay In my healthier seasons and there's actually a specific person I have in mind . She was my least favorite person to work with when I started because she was always shooting down my ideas . She became my favorite person to work with when we realized that we're actually allies . Wanting the same thing Like this doesn't have to be about me , drew , and my ideas and what gets to win . Whatever . She's not against me , she's actually trying to help me .
Speaker 2So she became the first person I would bring in and I would invite her in and say help me understand the ways this might go wrong . What am I not bring in ? And I would invite her in and say help me understand the ways this might go wrong . What am I not seeing ? And all that . And then , instead of her having to be a contrarian or be combative . She was actually able to use her gifts and contribute and be like well , here's an or . I would be like here's where I want to go . Could you outline a process for me , because I'll steamroll a bunch of people , sometimes unintentionally . I'm just excited , so I get up and I tell the whole staff and there's people that needed to know first . We've talked about that on the podcast . So all that to say . I think if you're examining yourself as a leader , if you're in a healthy season , you can still be a shiny penny leader .
Speaker 1We need it , we got to have those .
Speaker 2That's where vision comes from , but when you're healthy , you're surrounding yourself with people and you're inviting feedback in and you're not taking it personal or like , hey , you're taking the wind out of my sails , like no , we're all in this together . We want to go to the same place .